HeraldNet: For SPEEA members: How do you like Boeing’s contract offer?



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Aerospace Blog

November 15, 2008

For SPEEA members: How do you like Boeing’s contract offer?

Posted at 12:01 am

Boeing and SPEEA negotiators agree: they like the proposed four-year contract offer.

But we want to hear from more rank and file members.

What do you like about Boeing’s offer? What would you change?

Post your comments below or send me an e-mail.

And, just as importantly, how will you vote?

SPEEA members, how will you vote on Boeing's contract offer? ( surveys)

READER COMMENTS
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Vote yes - we're not the IAM, but we understand them as best we can
I am a Boeing engineer, I've been at Boeing 22 years, 2 as a dreaded contract engineer (shopper), and the other 20 as a Boeing direct. I've been a SPEEA member for most of that 20 years and was on strike for the full 40 days. I come at this from a different perspective, I am not a Boeing-since-birth guy, I graduated 27 years ago.

There were improvements in selections that for some folks for outweigh the "Medical Premium increase 9% (selections)," the mental health and in-home care improvements are pretty huge. I watched as more than one person has gone through those kind of events, and see the benefit that having that kind of care last as long as needed, without taking you to the poor house.

For those who are perfectly healthy, given that it is in a LOU, the option of going to a real low-cost tax free, health insurance plan is right up the alley for a class of young engineers or engineers who are debt free.

Expecting a "increase in Vacation" was a longshot. Just like 10% raise pools every year. The vacation rate has been around for a looooonnnngggg time. I've hit the plateau, but it doesn't bother me. If it really bothers you, go to work for Airbus in Alabama or Wichita, you'll get 30 days right off the bat.

Expecting "Vacation hrs for overtime worked (IAM gets)" another longshot. We are unique in the salaried engineering world. At other company's you are lucky to get straight time for OT, despite being on 58 hour mandatory OT.

I have a feeling we may never get a real " COLA (IAM gets)" - I don't understand it, I will prefer to be hopeful.

Ratification bonus doesn't last past the holiday's raise pools do. Do the math. Going on strike gave the IAM the bump in theirs "ratification bonus (IAM gets)"

I dislike guaranteed increases, on principle, it offers protection for the weak performer against a jerk of a supervisor. I've had at least one jerk of a supervisor, so I see both sides of this argument.

I understand, we have limits to the impact on company performance, but the IAM doesn't have an EIP, they have bonuses which can burn holes in pockets faster than anything.

From a practical standpoint, I prefer the "no contractors in lead positions (except in unique cases)." We are so stretched thin by aggressive schedules and multiple airplanes in development that reality bites in this one. We have the 777 Freighter, 747-8I/F, 787-8/3/9 programs all running over each other competing for the same resources. The only time I've seen worse was during the 747-500/600. We hired the world over, warm bodies with engineering degrees, filled the parking lots with two story office buildings, etc.

Now we have situations where our choices can be something like (on the 747-8 stress groups)
1) A good engineer with 15 years of real aircraft experience, riding herd over:
75% shoppers, 50% of whom are on working visa's from all over Europe, South America, or Asia and the other 50% with little experience in aircraft.
25% directs, with less than 2 years experience
2) A Boeing direct with 2 years experience over the same group.

Let's say candidate #1 is a shopper that's been with Boeing 10 of those years, who would you choose?

When you consider that there is no official position "lead engineer" in any of the engineering organizations in Heritage Boeing, there are not many guidelines anyway.

Dream on with respect to "Any position that requires a contractor for more than a 12 month continuous period should become a direct employee position." What planet were you born on? I know contract engineers I've worked over the past 25+ with that have had continuous employment since the late 50's. Their name is their resume. They can walk out of Company X on a Friday and into Company Y on a Monday. Some have stayed with one company for 10 years. They like the mercenary lifestyle, they choose their path, with such attractions as $70+/hour and time and a half OT. I have chosen mine.

Regarding "The outsourcing language is weak with no teeth, did we not learn anything from the IAM experience."
We are not the IAM (and I do not mean that in a derogatory sense), it's different when you talk assembly and parts. I think the company has learned a big lesson, we'll see whether they choose to learn it over and over.

I will wait to see more in writing before I would make a judgment like yours, but for now, my gut says, yes.
Joe Draper | Nov 15, 2008 11:08 am | 3 replies | View all | Post reply | Request removal

The fine print game
1) DEMAND that SPEEA publish/post the legal plan documents which go with the pension plan, the 401K plan, and the medical plan- thats where the gotchas are
2) DEMAND That the N team hire outside non conflicted SME in the area of labor law, ERISA, and medical bennys - and have them provide a written opinion on the issues

3) On pension- SPEEA does have a good person on tap from SEGAL re pension and ERISA - get a writte opinion from him BEFORE you vote regarding the alternate formula for pension and if it meets ERISA standards re no reduction in accrual rates. Understand that even if it does not - and the union approves it, as they have for the past two or more decades, you will continue to get hosed

4) Ask for a copy of the past 3 years of Beck audits( which include IFPTE beck audits ) , and find out for yourselves just how much of the 1 million/year to IFPTE goes to AFL-CIO for NON UNION business. Its about 40 percent

5) Ask why SPEEA would spend more on tee shirts than on experts to support the N- team. Why would anyone assume that no matter how well meaning 0 the part time team can out guess and out wit the Boeing back bench of professionals ? Keep in mind that its not the Boeing twits at the table that make the decisions oother than correct spelling - but the people at Perkins coie- and the towers perrin actuaries and auditors and thesenior executives who want to get rid of the union.

Unless and UNTIL members demand the above - YOU snooze- YOU loose !

And for more info - go to

http://www.msdsite.com/forums/showthread.php?p=11134#post11134

don
D S | Nov 17, 2008 8:49 pm | 0 replies | View all | Post reply | Request removal

Vote No
I second the comments on the roll over and take it on the medical. I've requested a clarification from SPEEA on why it's a good deal now but there is a pending arbitration.

SPEEA contends that Boeing has always ahd the right to change the benefits any time they liked. I don't see that in the current contract. If it's there, then removing that language should have been non-negotiable in my mind.

What the heck did they offer when SPEEA was ready to strike if they thought we should accept this?
Kenny Slade | Nov 20, 2008 12:00 pm | 1 replies | View all | Post reply | Request removal

(No heading)
If by striking the members could achieve a parallel contract to the IAM's, I would say go for it. However, Speea's negotiating team has proven to be inadequate. 1) They did not get strike authorization before lifting the contract. 2) They lifted the contract before Boeing stated is was the best and final. Therefor, having no confidence in Speea or the negociation team I have voted Yes to accept the contract and No to authorize the strike.
Dave Smith | Nov 20, 2008 8:57 am | 0 replies | View all | Post reply | Request removal

Vote "NO" for the Contract "YES" to strike
Come on Nerds.. If yours as smart as people say you are vote NO. Heck lets face it, its all about the money (lump sum, salary adjustment, eip, cola, etc.) A newbie, fresh off the truck IAM first year with a $5000 minimum,,,(remember minimum) plus, 4% GWI and COLA will almost equal and I know this, All 4 years of most engineers and techs new contract.

So if your education and hardwork is not worth it. Then do what you want.

But we ALL know this is not fair.
s k | Nov 18, 2008 8:04 am | 0 replies | View all | Post reply | Request removal

Vote No
You are worth much more than what this contract proposal is offering.
This is the minimum the company thinks they need to offer us in order to satisfy a simply majority to vote accept. Do not be fooled. We are worth much more. If not you for yourself, then for your co-workers: VOTE NO on the contract and YES to Strike.

We will not strike immediately. There will be much more negotiating and move strike votes before an actual strike is called.

Do not be afraid. Show courage and strength.

VOTE NO!
joe blow | Nov 17, 2008 10:50 pm | 0 replies | View all | Post reply | Request removal

Voting No
You know, when the IAM went on strike, I didn't agree with it, even though I didn't agree, I figured that if they were willing to fight like that, then that was their right.

I don't want to go on strike, I'm a newly hired tech, and I can't afford it. But this contract offer is just a slap in the face. I've been here less than a year, I'm fresh out of school and I make a few tens of thousands below what the "average" tech makes as reported by Boeing, Out here, that's not a lot of money to put away for a strike fund. I haven't had time to prepare for this.

I get off the point though, I'm angry now. I'm angry that we had to take the takeaways, whereas the IAM walks away with lump sum bonuses, and higher pay raises.

I'm angry that because they walked, we won't get much, if any, EIP payout next year.

We kept Utah.. because we wouldn't want the union to lose that 3200 dollars a month in dues. That's such a bonus..

SPEEA, I'm taking my dues and giving it to charity, you don't deserve my hard earned money. I'm going to give it to an organization that does something for people.
Nan None | Nov 17, 2008 4:38 pm | 0 replies | View all | Post reply | Request removal

VOTE NO!!!
When polled, we told our negotiation team Wages, Medical and Retirement. They SOLD US OUT!!!
Three new plane - lets count again - THREE new planes need us to get them off the ground yet Boeing wants the "Educated union" to pay more for their medical??? Excuse me???
I've been here for 30 years and Medical was the prime reason we struck last time. Boeing makes no changes to the IAM's medical but they want us to pay more for ours? I'm tried of being treated as a 2nd class worker!
SEND A MESSAGE TO THE PEOPLE THAT ARE SUPPOSED TO BE REPRESENTING US!!! VOTE NO, NO, NO!!!
Send these people back to the table and let Mr. Goforth EARN ever cent that we're paying him!
Gary Pina | Nov 17, 2008 9:57 am | 0 replies | View all | Post reply | Request removal

Whoop tee do!!!
Hey, the 2-week deadline for being able to complete a contract ratification vote by mail before the existing contract expired on Dec. 1 was rapidly approaching. So, after weeks of huffing and puffing, the so-called speea negotiators rolled over the instant the company laid its standard contract on the table and offered to throw in the approximately 100 folks in Utah.

After all, the most import thing for speea is keep the payroll deduction of compulsory union dues going uninterrupted and to make sure that their new bargaining unit in Utah gets rolled into the Puget Sound contracts so that speea does not actually have waste any time or money on the roughly 100 folks in Utah.

The average salary of the top 15 paid speea staffers is $130,000, and those folks will be rejoicing if the contract is ratified on Dec. 1, because they’ll continue to get their 10%+ annual raises and speea’s AFL-CIO affiliates will soon be receiving from speea dues paying members over $1.5 million annually to spend on Labor’s favorite political causes.

Once again, speea has proven how pathetically useless it is. No union would be far better than that useless union.
Michael Butcher | Nov 17, 2008 7:39 am | 0 replies | View all | Post reply | Request removal

Boeing/SPEEA Contract "The Devil's in the Details"
My fellow SPEEA represented colleagues. (I use the term represented very loosely).

Here's some food for thought regarding the proposed contract.

1. Read it! All of it!, not the "readers digest version" on the SPEEA website, read the actual contract on the Boeing website, its lengthy but full of interesting information.

http://www.boeing.com/2008negotiations/01/speea_agreement.html

2. Compare it to the last contract, yes read that too, notice what language has changed or more importantly what language has been taken out.

For example the Medical section of the contract:

16.2(b)(2) Effective July 1, 2009, in regions where employees may choose between coordinated care, exclusive provider organization/health maintenance organization plans or the Traditional Medical Plan, the Company will pay the full cost of the Company designated plan in the applicable region for eligible employees and dependents."

1.What is the "COMPANY DESIGNATED PLAN?" TMP? Selections? Group Health? None of the above? Maybe they could unilaterally bring in some new plan with lower quality coverage even higher costs pushed onto the employees?

2."...FOR THE TERM OF THE AGREEMENT..." text was deleted from the end of the sentence. This means that the "company designated plan" may now be changed at any time over the next 4 years.

So, lets ponder this for a second. For the next 4 years, we are about to hand management the authority to choose any health plan (TMP, Selections, Group Health, or whatever plan theyve got stashed behind Curtain #3) to be the "company designated plan". Management will have the authority to change this at any time (dont have to honor the "designated plan"; for the duration of the contract. Furthermore, if this language gets into the contract, what do you think the likelihood will be that it will ever be removed?

Overtime and the COLA increase:

Prof overtime pay: Overtime worked beyond 144 hours in a quarter will be paid at straight time plus $15 per hour. Overtime hours up to 144 hours per quarter will be paid at existing rate of straight time plus $6.50 through 2010.

OK, so in any quarter you have to complete 144 hours of overtime at $6.50 per hour, before you can collect the $15 per hour overtime increased rate. That means you have to do 14.4 hours per week at $6.50 overtime rate, prior to the increase kicking in, (that is for the last 14 days of that particular quarter, before starting again at $6.50 per hour for the next new quarter). How many people will this increase benefit? the masses or the few? So you could get 28.8 hours of overtime at the $15.00 rate if you work really hard each quarter.

And finally.

Before you vote, you better read the ENTIRE contract again!!!

This is hard to do considering all the references to Appendices that are not provided? funny that!! are alarm bells ring yet!!

Whole sections are lined out, yet the referenced sections are not provided?

Oh here's the kicker for all those overtime junkies out their eager to get the increased COLA overtime rate.

Overtime pay for the prof unit goes up after 144 hour per quarter, BUT did you see the letter (its hidden in the contract) that states Boeing can stop overtime at, coincidentally, 144 hours per quarter, so you never see the increase?

The devil is in the details and there is a large amount of red lines that are not explained to us by our union, and the missing Appendix "A" is a big problem for me, there is just to much stuff being referenced to it.

We're all professionals, do your due diligence!

No one wants a strike, but no one wants to spend the next four years thinking they were cheated and lied to either, so due your due diligence, read the entire contract ask the union questions and then vote accordingly.

Remember the union recommended acceptance, but we are the ones having to vote on it, not them and we are the ones who will have to live with it for the next 4 years.

Regards,

A very worried SPEEA member.

A very worried SPEEA member.
Simon cook | Nov 16, 2008 10:49 pm | 0 replies | View all | Post reply | Request removal

Vote No
Anyone who thinks this is the best we can get is a very sad person. It is time to show both Boeing and SPEEA that we are tired of their games! Who is Boeing counting onto clean up the mess on the 787? We are not the ones who chose to go down the path of outsourcing all the work on the 787 to unqualified companies, but we are the ones who have to fix it!!! And this is how Boeing thanks us? It is an insult thats what this contract offer is, and it shows what a joke SPEEA is by recommending it. I for one am ready to leave SPEEA and just pay the contract fee!!!
Nolan Foss | Nov 16, 2008 9:51 am | 0 replies | View all | Post reply | Request removal

(No heading)
As an IAM member, I can only hope and pray for you all, since once again, the company and union negotiators seem to be keeping each other warm and cozy while tossing decent, hard working people to the curb!
CC At the Big B | Nov 16, 2008 8:45 am | 0 replies | View all | Post reply | Request removal

SPEEA CONTRACT
PLEASE VOTE NO! With almost 22 years at Boeing with 17 plus in SPEEA, I cannot believe that our negotiating team led us to believe that they were almost at impasse on Friday morning and then miraculously they accepted this poor excuse for a contract. I truly fear that our membership will accept this by a close margin but holding their noses while doing so. As for the previous comments regarding the IAM and their ratification bonuses, they were offered a bonus (quite large also) in their initial contract. I believe that we have to recieve a true COLA as the IAM gets. Don't be so foolish to believe that the next 4 years will bring an annual inflation rate of less than 5%. In addition to what we are currently offered, I believe we deserve a reasonable bonus (5%) to counter some of the cost increases we will see. I VOTE NO!

Vote No
Medical Premium increase 9% (selections)
No increase in Vacation
No Vacation hrs for overtime worked (IAM gets)
No COLA (IAM gets)
No ratification bonus (IAM gets)
2.5 % guaranteed (less than IAM)
EIP - not likely to pay out this year
Additionally, the line about no contractors in lead positions "except in unique cases" should read No contractors in Lead positions PERIOD.
Any position that requires a contractor for more than a 12 month continuous period should become a direct employee position.
The outsourcing language is weak with no teeth, did we not learn anything from the IAM experience
Seems you are putting a lot of faith in Boeings word, kinda like the last contract and new hire early retiree medical.
The so called gains in medical and dental are insignificant, they removed limits on items that the majority of membership do not need, what % of membership requires four cleanings per year ?

Not to mention that it looks like SPEEA completely rolled over on the change in medical that Boeing implemented six months ago.

Keeping 100 Utah engineers in the unit and a comment about respecting union officers is not enough for me to accept this contract.

I will be voting No on this contract.
david pearson | Nov 15, 2008 9:17 am | 0 replies | View all | Post reply | Request removal

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