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 TUESDAY, MARCH 16, 2010 9:39 am |
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Local News 
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County law could change to allow guns in parks County needs to lift firearm ban to match state law, councilman says As Seattle readies to defend in court its ban on guns at city parks, Snohomish County might move in the opposite direction.If a new law passes, you could feel free to tote a legally owned firearm into county parks. Just don’t shoot it, unless it’s in self-defense. County code, as it reads now, prohibits people from carrying or discharging guns in county parks. Lifting the long-standing ban is mostly a house-keeping measure to bring the county in line with state law, said Councilman John Koster, who submitted the proposal earlier this month. An opinion from State Attorney General Rob McKenna supports his stance. “You read through the attorney general’s opinion, it’s pretty darn strong,” Koster said. “The code is in conflict with state law.” Crossbows, slingshots and fireworks would still be against the rules if the law changes in Snohomish County. The issue is scheduled for discussion during a County Council operations committee meeting at 1:30 p.m. Dec. 7. A public hearing would take place before any vote. Seattle’s ban has drawn national attention and a lawsuit from gun-rights groups. Seattle Mayor Greg Nickels, who leaves office at the end of this year, pushed for that city’s new law after three people were shot by a Snohomish man during the 2008 Northwest Folklife Festival. Seattle’s ban took effect at noon Oct. 16. It applies in areas where signs are posted. “There has been no injunction, so we’re still rolling out the signs,” Nickels’ spokesman Alex Fryer said Tuesday. Seattle’s central argument is its right to impose conditions of use as a property owner, Fryer said. On Oct. 28, the Second Amendment Foundation, the National Rifle Association and five people who use Seattle parks filed a lawsuit in King County Superior Court challenging Seattle’s law through the state’s preemption statute. That statute has been on the books since 1983 and was strengthened in 1985, said Dave Workman, Bellevue-based senior editor for the national newspaper “Gun Week.” The state law made any local gun bans unenforceable, he said. “The Second Amendment Foundation would not have taken this to court,” said Workman, “if they weren’t absolutely sure that this statute (in Seattle) was illegal under the state preemption statute.” He called the Seattle law “all flash and no substance” and said Koster’s move was “really the smart thing to do.” Koster said the county might have to revisit the law if Seattle prevails in court, but doubted that would happen. He submitted his proposed ordinance earlier this month, he said, because constituents have been raising the issue for a few years. “Some are pretty adamant about it, others are just bringing it to my attention,” he said. An e-mail from a Monroe resident convinced that city to make similar changes in March, Monroe police spokeswoman Debbie Willis said. The City Council removed part of a city code that prohibited firearms from being carried in parks by anyone other than law enforcement. Noah Haglund: 425-339-3465, nhaglund@heraldnet.com. |
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COMMENTS
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Switzerland has the LOWEST crime rate IN THE WORLD, yet requires their citizens to have a firearm in every home. Albeit, the citizens have to serve a term in their military, but I believe that to be a good thing to prepare them for any future need to use those types of skills.
The states and countries with the strictest gun laws have the HIGHEST crime rates. England passed their ban on weapons, and their crime rate has shot up 19% and is climbing. So much so that most of their news agencies WILL NOT, or REFUSE to publish them.
If a conservative doesn't want a gun, he doesn't buy one.
If a liberal doesn't want a gun, NOBODY can have one.
If a conservative doesn't want to eat meat, he doesn't eat meat.
If a liberal doesn't want to eat meat, he wants NO ONE to eat meat.
If a conservative doesn't want to drive an SUV, he doesn't buy one.
If a liberal doesn't want to drive an SUV, they must all be banned from manufacture immediately..!!
This list goes on and on.
This is AMERICA. If you don't like it, move out.
Jonathan Doe | Dec 15, 2009 9:44 pm | 0 replies | Request removal
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These dumb polititians, when will they learn that the criminals don't care what the law is they will carry any way.
To qoute the motor city madman himself (Ted Nugent) " Gun Free Zones are a guaranteed recipe for maximum innocent deaths"
The Nuge is right, where do the bad guys go to shoot innocent people? Places where they have the least chance to catch lead themselves.
I have a carry permit but don't always carry, the bad guys however never know and neither does anyone else except possibly law enforcement who are trained to spot the signs. Every persin I know that has a concealed carry permit it trained, practices, and doesn't draw attention to themselves by advertising the fact that they are carrying.
The general public however, is alot safer on the street because we do.
Look at the recent Fort Hood massicer by the Terrorist! If guns were allowed to be carried by more folke that maniac would not have inflicted nearly as much damage.
Also, since when can local government infringe upon my Constitutional RIGHT to bear arms? They can't legally in public places. That however doesn't mean that a private organization cannot post restrictions.
I'm waiting for Seattle's law to be challenged. I knoe several SPD officers that are not going to enforce it unless the carrier doesn't possess a CC permit.
Remember the only people that will obey the laws are law abiding people who you shouldn't have to worry about any how.
Todd Westby | Dec 9, 2009 1:05 pm | 0 replies | Request removal
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As was already noted, we can carry guns in all state, county and municipal parks right now in Washington.
It does not matter whether a county or city believes they are above the law and has refused to alter their laws anytime in the last, oh, 26 years--regardless of the other important matters that needed to be addressed.
Gun owners already know the law. Those of us with a Concealed Pistol License have carried in parks with unenforceable laws and we shall continue to carry. We smile and smirk at the folly of stupid signs with unenforceable laws. It has only been since the courts began to recognize open carry as legal in Washington that these unenforceable laws began to attract attention.
I daresay the county prosecutor knows NEVER to prosecute someone for carrying a firearm in a county park under county ordinance which is in conflict with state law. No sense in spending taxpayer dollars needlessly.
Ken Grubb | Dec 2, 2009 9:16 am | 0 replies | Request removal
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Brian
I’m glad you know yourself well enough to know you can’t be trusted to responsibly own / carry a firearm. But just because you shouldn’t, doesn’t mean others who are stable, law abiding citizens shouldn’t.
But again, I applaud you for realizing that you shouldn’t be trusted with one and have not tried to obtain or carry one.
GiveMe aBrake | Nov 25, 2009 2:37 pm | 1 replies | Request removal
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You make a good point.
Stan Jones | Dec 01, 2009 12:39 pm | Request removal
Technically, the ordinance is already repealed.
RCW 9.41.290
State preemption.
The state of Washington hereby fully occupies and preempts the entire field of firearms regulation within the boundaries of the state, including the registration, licensing, possession, purchase, sale, acquisition, transfer, discharge, and transportation of firearms, or any other element relating to firearms or parts thereof, including ammunition and reloader components. Cities, towns, and counties or other municipalities may enact only those laws and ordinances relating to firearms that are specifically authorized by state law, as in RCW 9.41.300, and are consistent with this chapter. Such local ordinances shall have the same penalty as provided for by state law. Local laws and ordinances that are inconsistent with, more restrictive than, or exceed the requirements of state law shall not be enacted and are preempted and repealed, regardless of the nature of the code, charter, or home rule status of such city, town, county, or municipality.
Paul West | Nov 25, 2009 1:46 am | 1 replies | Request removal
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Good catch. Nuff said.
Stan Jones | Dec 01, 2009 12:28 pm | Request removal
This is good for all lawfull gun owners. State Law is real clear on this. City and County lawmakers need to read the state constitution before passing any gun law that really only hurts the law abiding. I have carried for over 16 years. Two times I have pulled my weapon. Once to stop a robbery of myself at Gasworks Park and once to stop some guy from stabbing another guy on Broadway in Everett. Most people who carry guns don't cause trouble, They stop it in it's tracks. You never heard of things like this because crimes prevented don't make the news.
Stan Jones | Nov 25, 2009 11:38 am | 4 replies | Request removal
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Stan Jones - you hit the nail on the head. You'd never be in the news as you're a responsible gun owner who's been able to avert two attempted crimes. That's not very sensational news - law abiding citizen legally carrying a firearm. Which is a sad picture of what kind of world we live in today.
Ender Wiggin | Nov 25, 2009 11:57 am | Request removal
You want to know what's really messed up.... in my mine, Both times I called 911 afterwards and waited for over an hour for a response. Nobody showed so I went on with my life. I don't mean to cut on the cops, I know they have important things to do. They might have showed up after I left.
Stan Jones | Dec 01, 2009 12:16 pm | Request removal
sorry, I ment Mind.
Stan Jones | Dec 01, 2009 12:19 pm | Request removal
sorry, I cant spell for S**t after a 12 hour graveyard shift.
Stan Jones | Dec 01, 2009 12:23 pm | Request removal
Ruby welloffman | Nov 28, 2009 8:43 am | 2 replies | Request removal
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What about the kids? what do kids have to do with me carring a gun? I love my kids and carry for them.All the shooting you talk about are by people who do not care about laws they care about nothing.Thats why I carry to stop some guy from killing more people.Have fun in your make beleave world because what I am talking about is real life.
Perry Shaw | Nov 28, 2009 2:41 pm | Request removal
good point Perry. People have to look out for the people they care about. Cops can't be everyplace at once.
Stan Jones | Dec 01, 2009 12:02 pm | Request removal
What LAW would stop the examples Ruby gave? Guns are a double edged sword, but how does disarming law abiding people make the public safer? That-think of the children-line is just sad. It reminds me of a Simpsons episode. People have to be accountable for thier own actions. That's the only logical way to deal with guns I can think of. Every alternative I have ever heard is bad for self protection and never works in real life.
Stan Jones | Nov 28, 2009 12:29 pm | 4 replies | Request removal
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Ruby welloffman | Nov 29, 2009 9:11 am | Request removal
Ruby welloffman | Nov 29, 2009 9:12 am | Request removal
Ruby welloffman | Nov 29, 2009 9:12 am | Request removal
I hear you on the meat thing. I enjoyed a nice Elk steak on thanksgiving. But I feel safer living in the boondocks than I did living in downtown Everett even though I was in a "upscale" building that had onsite security, cameras and underground parking. My truck was broken into once every two or three months. It was irritating and expensive. A State Trooper that lived in the building had her AR-15 stolen right out of her patrol car. I learned fast that you really have to look out for yourself to get any piece of mind.
Stan Jones | Dec 01, 2009 11:11 am | Request removal
I find that you can usually tell who speaks based on facts and who speaks based on feelings.
Typically I find that anti-gunners are the emotional ones. In fact, they often become so fired up that I am glad that they aren't armed.
There is just too much data out there that shows beyond a shadow of a doubt that the legal gun owner isn't the problem. Now I know that the first thing that the "Anti" is going to spew is all of the people they personally know that were legal and still broke the law with their gun. I never said that legal people never make mistakes. And, although the crimes that you know about might be huge in your little world, in the big picture, they don't even measure a full 1% of the crimes.
So calm down, do some study, and REALLY know your subject. Then let's have a conversation!
william monger | Nov 25, 2009 9:52 pm | 0 replies | Request removal
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The Councilman recognizes that the County is at risk for a lawsuit if this law is ever enforced. So in a refreshing move, he is attempting to PREVENT the waste of our tax dollars on possible litigation against the County. Something the City of Seattle was not smart enough to figure out.
Kelly Nichols | Nov 25, 2009 3:14 pm | 0 replies | Request removal
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I say infringment assuming you are a registered voter that could have the power change laws. If a threat of bodily harm was iminent you would know it. As any half way inteligent person would. If there was a knife or gun in your face it would become clear real fast.
I put myself in the good guy class because I don't rob people or break into houses. I have a job and pay taxes. I don't want to shoot anybody. I understand what is criminal and avoid those activities because they are wrong and would not feel good doing such activities.
"Better to not have a gun around" sounds good but is not reality. Anti-gun and no gun zones only apply to those that would follow the law. Criminals don't care about laws. Those people by nature of their activities would never care one little bit what law was passed. I don't think I could ever make you see my perspective. I only want to say that gun owners are not bad people because they own guns. The fact that they register guns and get CWP's only shows that they want to be good guys.
Stan Jones | Nov 25, 2009 2:29 pm | 0 replies | Request removal
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To Fantasy Land -- I am not the law, I am not on any council or in any legislature, so if the poster is afraid of me having anything that resembles the legal authority to "infringe on his rights" he is truly in fantasy land. The "Fantasy Land" author says "don't infringe on my rights," and what exactly did I do that accomplished the "infringment?" Did I break into anyone's home? Do I have superior firepower, technology, or tactics that are "infringing on his rights?" REALLY -- FANTASY LAND SUPREME FOR MR. JONES. And yes, there are "bad people" out there, including myself and you and everyone who reads and posts here, we all can lose emotional control and respond to fear. Those conditions are temporary, and they pass. Better not to have a gun around. Don't assume you're one of the "good people" automatically until you're in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Brian Caldwell | Nov 25, 2009 1:53 pm | 0 replies | Request removal
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Brian, What world do you live in? There really are bad people out there. Cops usually take reports afterwards. They are not always there to protect you or your family. Every American has a right to protect themselves from crime and bodily harm. If you choose not to, that is your choice. Don't infringe on my choice because of some imagined threat you have.
Stan Jones | Nov 25, 2009 1:41 pm | 0 replies | Request removal
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Gun owners don't make trouble? They invent it in their minds when its' not there. No guns, no trouble. Make sure you find an innocent "poster child" as well to exploit for justification. The legal gun owner shot the suspect and said "Better Safe than Sorry!!!"
Brian Caldwell | Nov 25, 2009 12:55 pm | 0 replies | Request removal
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I'm getting outta Seattle and heading north
shane marr | Nov 25, 2009 11:11 am | 0 replies | Request removal
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Whether you think firearms should be allowed in parks or not, it's not the issue at hand. The issue is implementing a city ordinance that you know is in violation of state law. The RCW in question was written years ago to specifically prohibit cities from passing ordinances such as Seattles.
If cities want the RCW changed, then lobby for it...don't pass blatantly illegal ordinances. Until the RCW changes, I applaud the Snohomish County Council for recognizing their responsibility to uphold the law.
Points Tofacts | Nov 25, 2009 12:32 am | 0 replies | Request removal
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